Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 These views and opinions and comments in this pod cash on this station do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions by this station broadcast, especially these two whom speaks, said words or opinions over the air. If you have a complaint about something or find you're thin skinned, maybe you should turn this off and mind your own business, like good sheep. This is David Jefferies. This is Jay Nevilles and welcome to sticks and stones. And today's guest is a good friend of ours. Eliya and he's gonna talk about, uh, what it is to be a immigrant in America. That's right. And other things, of course, old friend of ours, very old by your way, Dave. All right. Uh, talk about why you decided to move to Minnesota.
Speaker 1 00:01:28 Well, I didn't have a choice. I was two years old and, uh, I was born in Vienna, Austria, and, uh, my mom and dad are from former Yugoslavia. So my dad left in, I'm going to get this wrong, but it's like 65 or something like that. And, uh, he became an electrician at a young age. He was like 16 years old and, uh, started to apprentice as an electrician. And he got a job in Germany, but my understanding is they went to Austria to Vienna because it was, uh, probably more affordable for them to live. So they live there and, uh, my dad would work in Germany, so we stayed in a small apartment and, uh, I know my grandparents would come and help watch us while my mom and my dad would go to work. But my dad worked in Germany. So he'd have to get on a train on a Sunday evening, the last train to get out to Germany.
Speaker 1 00:02:36 So he would work all week till Friday, and then after work, he'd catch the last train and come back that he'd be with us on the weekends. Um, and then at some point they decided that, uh, it's kind of a funny story. Actually. They decided that they wanted to leave Europe. The thing with Europe and the thing with being a Southern European at that time, particularly Serbian, uh, they weren't looked upon as being sort of, uh, what's the way to say it. Like almost like, yeah, like almost like lower class or something. Right. Um, I mean, you can go back to the history of like, uh, Nazi, Germany, even the Serbs were rounded up along with Jewish people, Roma people, uh, in any others that they considered undesirable. And they slot like, my dad lost most of his family except for his dad, his mom and his sister.
Speaker 1 00:03:35 And I think he had a couple of cousins left, but every, all his other uncles, cousins, everybody were rounded up by the Nazis and killed. So they wanted a better life. They decided that they were gonna put in back at that time, they used to have like this lottery system in a bunch of different countries. So Australia, Canada, South Africa, Brazil, and the U S right. And they would take so many immigrants in. So they applied for all of them. So I could've ended up in any one of those countries, you know, would have been a whole different story. But through some organization and my godmother's brother, he lived in Ohio at the time. He's a Serbian Orthodox priest. Uh, he sponsored us along with, uh, another guy and then this like charitable organization helped to get us over here. We came here, we got to New York, what year? This is 72. Okay. So we got to New York. And then, uh, from New York, we made our way to, here's the funny part of the story though. So my dad kept selling the idea of moving to my mom by saying, we're going to St. Paul, which sounds like Sal Paolo Brazil. And so my mom kept thinking, we're going to sell Paolo Brazil. So she's expecting like Palm trees and stuff. Right.
Speaker 2 00:04:58 It's a whole different place. Yeah. They know Paul get off of New York 54.
Speaker 1 00:05:07 So we ended up, uh, we ended up coming to St. Paul and it was, I think it was like in may, no, March. I mean, but it was one of them snowy marches that we have here. So it was cold, wet Lake, super dreary out, whatever.
Speaker 2 00:05:22 She must have thought the plane turned around.
Speaker 1 00:05:25 She wanted to go home so bad. She's like,
Speaker 2 00:05:29 I don't want to <inaudible>.
Speaker 1 00:05:32 Yeah. That's exactly what she thought like, this is, this is, I dunno, this is fucked up. Like, you know, she was pissed. So, uh, but we ended up staying here and that I, uh, grew up in South St. Paul and, uh, ended up going to high school in cottage Grove at park high and a year. Did you graduate? I didn't graduate. I got my GED a year after I was supposed to graduate. So I'm supposed to graduate in 88 and got my GED in 89. Right. Yup.
Speaker 0 00:06:02 Tell everybody your wonderful American welcome when you got here, even though your skin was white.
Speaker 1 00:06:09 Yeah. So that's kind of an interesting thing. And um, like Jay, Dave, and a bunch of us we've talked about stuff like this before, but, uh, you know, being an immigrant kid, like I am white, but I came at a time when the cold war was still piping hot, as you guys know. So there was that whole communist scare thing. And because you could Slavia was a communist country at the time, albeit it wasn't truly co it had a communist party rule, but it was a socialist country, very liberal kind of progressive socialist country in a lot of ways. Um, that didn't matter. People here heard, you know, you could, Slavia, you're automatically a communist, so, right. Um, so we had a bunch of kind of really, uh, I dunno, troubling things happen to us. Like I remember one time, my brother and I, I think we were like, God, I must've been like five or six years old.
Speaker 1 00:07:02 Only there's this group of kids down the street. And, you know, they'd call us names all the time, like commie pinkos and you know, we're going to send you back to your country, all that stuff. And at that time in South St. Paul, a lot of people worked at, uh, Armour's stockyards. It was one of the world's largest stockyards for like animal processing and stuff. So they had straight up like leather whips bullwhips and they would whip us and chase us. And then they'd catch us in one day, they caught us and they, they held us down and the other guys started digging these huge holes in the ground. And, uh, they buried us up to our necks and then would take running, starts and come running at our heads and pretend like they were going to kick our heads. But then they would like jump over us, whatever. And at the end, they ended up hovering over us and letting spit, like, let you know, like a big spit drool thing, go down and try to get us to open our mouths and stuff. And I ended up getting an ear infection. It was this whole big
Speaker 0 00:08:03 That's terrible man. But you know, what's really terrible is that whatever they thought of was lame. If you really gonna bury somebody, you gotta, you lucked out. <inaudible> been a lot worse
Speaker 1 00:08:22 A little bit. I mean, you know, it was bad though. Like, I mean, even things like, uh, we'd get bit, you know, whipped with bike chains. As I still got scars on my body from like different things that, you know, these and they were older, they're old enough to know better. You know, we were like little, little kids and whatever. And these guys were like, you know, they were teenagers. And then the worst was is if you, so my dad would get pissed. And my dad was a hot head and he was not a guy to mess with. So we tell my dad about it. One time we, uh, had this guy that, uh, Kevin McAllister, his name, I hope
Speaker 3 00:08:56 He hears this
Speaker 1 00:08:57 By Kevin McAllister. He showed up and he was, uh, he chased us and, you know, throwing rocks at us and stuff like that. And so we ran home and uh, shut the door and we heard this loud pounding, and Kevin followed us as pounding on the glass. So my dad got home from work early that day and he was inside the house and we're like, Dan, Kevin, McCallister's outside. He's trying to kick our ass or whatever. And my dad kind of sounds like Arnold Schwartzenegger he's like, who the fuck is Kevin? So he sneaks out the doesn't sneak out. He walks through the, like we had our, our garage was attached to our house. So he walked through that door that goes into the garage, walked outside the outside door, the garage and came up behind him. He grabbed him with his open hand, smacked him as hard as he could against the head and knocked him down. And when he was down and trying to run away, he kicked him as hard as he could right. In the ass. So Kevin goes running home and tells his dad.
Speaker 3 00:09:54 And, uh,
Speaker 1 00:09:55 His dad then calls my, our house. And I was like, you know, you fucking communists, whatever. I'm going to get you guys deported. I'm going to turn you in all this. And my dad just clicked, hung up the phone. He had this big ass Monte Carlo bag. It was like a 77 or 78 Monte Carlo with that lawn front hood, metallic green Lake seafoam green. Yeah. He got in that thing and just hauled ass. Went to Kevin, stole all of us. Kids went running after to go watch. And, uh, he went up and started pounding on his door and say, come out, you son of a bitch. I'll slit your throat, all this stuff.
Speaker 3 00:10:31 So
Speaker 1 00:10:32 Obviously his dad didn't come out. He got scared. And so my dad backed up his car in the lawn and just Florida put the pedal to the metal and just tore up their yard and hit like dirt and stuff all over their house.
Speaker 3 00:10:45 Yeah. That's my dad.
Speaker 1 00:10:47 It wasn't always the best guy, but sometimes he had your back too. So what did he decide?
Speaker 3 00:10:52 I go back to Europe. Yeah. So my dad lives in Serbia currently. Um,
Speaker 1 00:10:58 He went back like, that's gotta be like 16, 17 years ago. Now. He went back after he retired. And, uh, I think part of the reason he went back, like he was an electrician, his whole life, he came here, ended up being an electrician. Uh, he worked at the twin city shipyards, which is in St. Paul, right on pig's eye Lake. And, uh, they made those big barges and stuff that like the tugboats would go up and down the river. And, uh, he had a crazy accident there. Uh, he was working on one of these huge cranes that pick up the barge and they bring it to the river and dump it in the river while he was up there working on it. And these things have these huge batteries, like the light, like the size of a Volkswagen bug. And while he was up there, one of them blew up.
Speaker 1 00:11:41 And so, uh, it hurt, it hurt one of his coworkers pretty bad and hurt my dad pretty bad. My dad lost his sense of smell. Um, really fucked up his nose for the rest of his life. And then he had like little bits of shrapnel too, still to this day in his arm on the side of his face and his chest. It could have killed him, you know, but, uh, you know, he worked hard and, and tried to save up as much money as he could and, and, uh, did okay for himself. But it's, it's hard, man. It's hard. I think part of why he moved back was it was easier to stretch your dollar there because it's so much cheaper than it is here, you know? And when you're old, you got a lot of medical things. Like he recently got diagnosed with lymphoma and, uh, you know, over there they have nationalized healthcare, right. Even a supposedly third world country, like Serbia knows enough to give healthcare to its citizens. Right. Um, if he was here, that would cost, I mean, depending on what insurance covers or doesn't cover, like, you know, he could be out of pocket and lose all of his savings. Yeah, man. So I think that was a big reason why I moved back,
Speaker 4 00:12:51 But I thought like all immigrants got like seven years tax-free <inaudible>.
Speaker 1 00:13:01 Yeah. So that's kind of, uh, that's, that's not exactly how it works, as we know, like, yeah. There are some, some status that you can get, like, depending on if it's refugee status or, uh, seeking asylum and stuff like that. Keep in mind a lot of immigrants that move here are moving from countries that are country destroyed. Right. So like, uh, I remember growing up, we had a lot of, uh, uh, kids in our school, in our community that were from Southeast Asia, from Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, um, a lot among people and, uh, you know, their country was ravaged by war, arguably, at least in my mind, a needless war. Okay. So they didn't have like, you know, a good quality of life there. So why wouldn't they want to come here where we could afford them a good quality of life, little, do they know when they get here? It's not, uh, you know, it's not all gold paved roads and stuff.
Speaker 4 00:14:02 Right. So how was your ex um, your experiences as a, an immigrant? How did that shape who you are today?
Speaker 1 00:14:14 Yeah, I've thought about that a lot over the years, especially, uh, more recently, I think that, uh, one of the things that I've always known as that, uh, there's something about traveling, um, in places outside of where you were, where you grew up, or at least learning about other cultures. Um, I was also raised, uh, I knew Serbian first, uh, our language before I knew English. So for example, when we were kids, like we would go to school and then we'd come home and teach our mom and dad, the things we learned in school to teach English or we'd watch like Sesame street together, or Mr. Rogers, you know, kids shows cause that's how you learn. Um, I don't mean to turn my back on you, by the way. It's just that it's a hard angle, but, uh, I think that seeing, you know, so we used to spend a lot of time in Serbia.
Speaker 1 00:15:11 My mom and dad would work their asses off, save up as much money as they could. And as many times as they could, they would get us tickets and we would fly overseas on our own. They would send us to go see my grandpa, my grandma and my aunts, uncles, cousins. Um, I think seeing how people lived in other countries and people lived, for example, in the U S um, it opened my eyes because we were taught here in the U S especially in, in our generation that, you know, socialism or communism is this huge evil thing. But then when I go to Yugoslavia as a kid, there was no drinking age in the bars. Nobody seemed to abuse it. They just, they didn't have a need for it. Or for example, like, uh, you know, I could still own a business if I, if I wanted to, I could still worship if I wanted to.
Speaker 1 00:16:05 Right. Like there may have been some special privileges if you were like an actual communist party member. Right. But you weren't denied a lot of rights necessarily because of it. And then I'd come here to the U S and I'm like, well, wait a minute. You gotta be, you know, at that time it was, I think it was, uh, I was still 21. We missed the, uh, 18 or 19 year old birthday going off by like a year or two or something like that. But, um, you know, you had all these rules and restrictions here, and then I'm like, well, I thought this was supposed to be the land of the free, and yet there's all these rules and stuff. And then kind of to go with what you're saying about my experience, being an immigrant, being an immigrant, um, especially from Serbia, from a communist country, I was already sort of outcast by the status quo here.
Speaker 1 00:17:02 So the only people I ended up becoming friends with were the other people that didn't fit the status quo. Right. So it was people of color. It was people from other countries that spoke other languages. It was people that had different food for lunch when they went to school and the other kids would make fun of what you're eating, because they didn't know what it was. You know what I mean? It was after, or we didn't have the money to buy like Nike tennis shoes or, you know, we, we, I grew up wearing Toughskin jeans and, uh, and a Kmart, those a line of shoes from Kmart because the slippers yeah. Cause they're cheap. Yeah. You know what I mean? And their mom and dad could afford it. So exactly. And we used to escape, destroy those things in about a month, but
Speaker 4 00:17:51 Remember, uh, I want you to tell these guys about how, how Trump in his presidency affected your status.
Speaker 1 00:18:02 You mean as far as being like Serbian,
Speaker 4 00:18:04 Right. Cause remember you were kind of nervous, you're worried about it.
Speaker 1 00:18:07 Yeah. So the thing that sucks about, and this is looking at how the, a large part of the globe views the United States, um, it's easy for us here in the U S I think sometimes to see us as, uh, well, not us president, but people in general here to kind of view the us as being like, uh, you know, sort of a protector of the world and this land of hope and opportunity and all this stuff. The downside that we don't see is how much damage the U S does around the world and how miserable it makes people's lives. And, uh, in my country, uh, former Yugoslavia got split up into what are now seven little countries because of a horrible war in the nineties. And, uh, uh, U S had a big part to play in that, you know, and, uh, that was capitalism.
Speaker 1 00:19:03 It was, um, you know, it's an orchestrated attempt to, uh, to gain resources and gain, uh, geographic advantage to the middle East. There was about oil from the black sea in the Ukraine. It was about, uh, um, minerals that were mined in, uh, Serbia and Kosovo. And don't get me wrong. The war was horrible. Uh, there was a trustees committed by serves towards Muslims, towards Croatians, uh, and from their sides towards Serbs, it went all around us horrible, but, um, serves were by no stretch of the imagination angels in that conflict. But what happened was, is, uh, in 1999, uh, the us, uh, started a bombing campaign of Serbia. And, uh, I recall one time, uh, my cousin, we were watching it, my dad got a satellite TV, um, just to watch the news from overseas. Cause you know, cable news, you couldn't get like international news necessarily. And even if you did, what version
Speaker 4 00:20:15 Are you getting? Right, right. Western.
Speaker 1 00:20:17 Exactly. So, uh, you know, he'd watch the news and stuff and uh, talking to our family there when we could keep in mind, this is before like, you know, Skype and all that stuff. So phone calls weren't cheap, they were expensive. And, uh, you, you had to time when you could call because, uh, of time delays that there, there are seven hours ahead of us there. So my mom would call my auntie to see, uh, how they're doing. And they're like, while we were just released out from the bomb shelter, again, the, the Americans just bombed us again. And, uh, my cousin, I talked to him and uh, he's like, uh, yeah, it just happened out of nowhere. There was no real warning. He was on a train. So where my dad lives now and where my mom grew up is this town called <inaudible> and it's on the Romanian border.
Speaker 1 00:21:13 It's about an hour from the Capitol Belgrade. And Belgrade is a pretty big city. It's got weight. I think it's got like three and a half, 4 million people, something like that. So anyways, my cousin would commute to go to school, to go to college and you'd get on the train. You said he was honest way to school on the train. And all of a sudden the train just came to a screeching, halt, packed with people, minded kids, moms, dads, old people, and often the distance, they would see this flash. And then this big mushroom cloud just go up in the sky. And then he said like 20 seconds later, this enormous boom sound in the whole train would shake. And he said, he looked around in shock and there's dead silence. And then people started screaming, you know? And he described like grown people, wedding themselves, literally pissing themselves out of fear, terrible man. Right.
Speaker 2 00:22:13 Why the hell were they bombing? Why was, why were they bombing Serbia?
Speaker 1 00:22:17 Well, there's the American version. There's, there's an American version. And then there's probably well closer to the truth, right? And what's closer to the truth is oil is a huge oil reserve in the black sea. It's why we're in, uh, Russia. And the U S are in contention over the Ukraine.
Speaker 1 00:22:36 Exactly. It's the same thing that's going on in Venezuela, right? Or Africa or Africa or anywhere Liberia. You look at Liberia with the rubber trade back in the day, you know, Liberia, for example, they looked at themselves as America's younger brother, literally their flag looks like the us flag. It's got red, white stripes and a blue field with a white star on it. It's called Liberia for Liberty. Right. You know, supposed to be the land for the freed slaves. Right. So we had big industries like Coca Cola, Goodyear Firestone went and set up, shop there and provided all these jobs for people all is so great until they depleted all of their rubber plants. And what guess what happened after all the rubber was gone? They left in the Detroit, in a civil war,
Speaker 2 00:23:26 Right?
Speaker 1 00:23:29 Yeah. Even worse. It was a civil war that was brutal. Brutal. I mean, brutal like hundreds of thousands of people getting slaughtered. Right. They begged the U S to come and intervene to help them beg this is during the Clinton era. You know what? We, nothing,
Speaker 4 00:23:46 Nothing. Let's back up a little bit. So the trunk part, so let's go to the Trump part, start from there.
Speaker 1 00:23:54 So the reason that
Speaker 4 00:23:58 When
Speaker 1 00:24:00 Trump was about to get into office, actually let's go back up a little bit during the election process when they were running his candidates and it was down to Trump or Hillary Clinton, the last person in the world that any Serbian would want to put in the oval office was the wife of the husband that bombed the shit out of him.
Speaker 4 00:24:24 Makes sense. Right.
Speaker 1 00:24:26 Cause they don't trust. They don't trust bill Quentin because you know, there are some promises made that they went back on and this, that, and the other. And I kind of look at it like if you look at that globally, now you look at all these other countries that the us has intervened. And um, they look at the establishment, the U S establishment, the status quo. It doesn't matter if it's Republican or Democrat as war monitors. Sure. So they see a guy like Trump come out. Who's not part of the establishment, but he is part of that class, that dream of what America is supposed to be, that, you know, sort of making it become, you know, having money and having a good life and all that. And so unfortunately, a lot of Serbs fell into that and they kind of fell into this whole idea.
Speaker 1 00:25:20 This notion that somehow Trump was a better fit for the U S because he wasn't going to bond. The sad reality is this. If you, if you really look at it, Trump didn't bomb him. And that now don't get me wrong by no stretch of the imagination. I'm not a Trump fan. I think he's horrible. I think he's a deplorable human being. And I think that it just the idea that we had him in the presidency in the oval office from four years, did a lot of damage to this country. A lot more damaged. Right. But I also don't think it's right to be only critical of Trump, but not equally, if not more critical of the established the 200 plus years of precedence we had prior that did nothing for people, but her.
Speaker 4 00:26:15 Yeah. Yeah. They were rotten bastards, all of them. They're pretty, pretty terrible. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:26:22 So my fear with the whole being Serbian, but yet being an anti-Trump, um, you know, I like, I tell people all the time and it's no secret to people. I'm not a Democrat and I'm not a Republican, I'm my own person. I think for myself. Um, I would say I'm definitely left probably pretty far left in terms of like what I think, uh,
Speaker 2 00:26:48 So you're saying you're a communist. I mean, all those kids say Paul, cause you're covering
Speaker 1 00:27:00 No, I mean, communist has its faults too. Right. But, but I, I,
Speaker 2 00:27:04 Well, we don't know what real communism looks like because it becomes a dictatorship. So
Speaker 1 00:27:09 Exactly. But that's the one thing to keep in mind that I tell people to like, you know, they're like, well, communism doesn't work, whatever I'm like. Yeah. But socialism does. And they're like, no, it doesn't. Then they bring up like Lennon or they'll bring up whole pot or they'll bring up a Chavez or they'll bring up whoever. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:27:29 I bring up, shockapy St. Paul Minneapolis. We got roads. We got the fire department, hospitals, teachers, schools, right. That's socialism. Yeah. Stoplights,
Speaker 1 00:27:46 Fire, firefighters, electricity, shop, public school,
Speaker 2 00:27:52 Places to go poop, all that giant ass stadium downtown with a losing ass team that you were worried about being deported because
Speaker 1 00:28:08 That's right. Yeah. I didn't get to that part so, well, I don't want to give too much away, but my, my immigration status is, I think it's solid, but I don't necessarily have all the paperwork for it in a lot of ways. Uh,
Speaker 2 00:28:26 Is there money if we turn you in? Cause I ain't worth that much. I'll tell you that. Right. He is Mexican. Right.
Speaker 1 00:28:38 You started chipping away at all these like, uh, immigration rights. Right. Right. And so then I'm like, well wait a minute. So just a quick background. When I moved to the U S when I was born, I was born Eliya <inaudible> when we moved to the U S or before we moved to the U S they changed my name to a more Western sounding named Martin apparently. Yeah, exactly. And so a few years back, I, you know, um, because of sort of what's been going on in, in, in the U S and whatever, I'm like, I'm not gonna hide my name and have a more Western sounding name. So I went back to Eylea, which is Elijah. It's, that's all it is. It's just a Serbian way of seeing Elijah. Okay. So, uh, I had illegally changed, but when I did that, I failed to do my immigration papers. Cause I couldn't find them because they're lost and to get another copy it's uh, it's expensive. Like it's, I think it's like got something like $700 for to get a copy. And then once I get a copy, I have to make the legal change on it and then do another $700 to get the actual document. Damn. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:29:48 There goes your stimulus check
Speaker 1 00:29:51 Gone. Right. I don't have money for that.
Speaker 2 00:29:54 She just got married. So,
Speaker 1 00:29:56 Yeah. So when Trump was like talking about like, you know, he's putting all these restrictions and bands and all this, I'm like, well, yeah, they had a problem with Serbia in the past, like, and I'm Serbian and I'm an immigrant and I can't find my papers. Oh shit. This could get real, you know, like, I don't know. But here's the funny part. I wouldn't go back to Serbia at all. I'd go back to Austria because I was born in Austria. I don't know any German. I know a couple of words.
Speaker 2 00:30:22 Thank you. I mean, all white people of Germany, they all want the same
Speaker 1 00:30:30 Pretty much. Yeah. So I don't know, man. Like
Speaker 4 00:30:33 If you could do it all over again, you know, knowing what you know now about America and your dad was like, you can go
Speaker 1 00:30:45 To one of those other countries like Brazil or
Speaker 4 00:30:47 Yeah. What'd you say, Oh, I go to St. Paul. I know some kids over there to got leather whips and the dig holes.
Speaker 1 00:30:56 Yeah. I would, I'd still do it because of the people I ended up meeting, you know what I mean? And uh, yeah. That's the one thing that it's funny. Like I, I, during the Trump thing, like a lot of people that I knew were like, you know, off this goes on, I'm gonna move to Canada or I'm going to do this, or I'm gonna do that. And I'm like, really? Like, why wouldn't you stay in fight? Why would you run?
Speaker 4 00:31:20 I mean, that's a good question. I mean, really?
Speaker 1 00:31:24 I just think it's goofy. Like, why would you run?
Speaker 4 00:31:26 Well, that sounds like something like evergreen say,
Speaker 2 00:31:32 No, she had to go through the, get here and stay here. You're like, fuck that. I'm not going off. You leave you sons of bitches. I'm staying here. I mean, what
Speaker 4 00:31:41 The fuck is in Austria?
Speaker 1 00:31:45 I know. I think Hitler was born in Austria.
Speaker 4 00:31:48 It looks like Wisconsin. Probably mountain
Speaker 1 00:31:52 Swiss. Swiss chocolate. Yeah. They're super into techno dude
Speaker 2 00:32:01 With that super into techno $10. He told me you want a huge party in Syria.
Speaker 1 00:32:13 Yeah. Exit exit festival, exit festival and Novi side is like this huge festival in this old, like things like 14th or 13th century fortress.
Speaker 4 00:32:23 And then what are they doing there? Like, do
Speaker 1 00:32:24 They have like every big everybody's played there? Literally everybody Playtech though. It's not just techno like, like, uh, I dunno everyone from like ice cube and Snoop dog to like,
Speaker 2 00:32:36 Oh, okay. And the same big
Speaker 1 00:32:42 Celebrities play there. Fuck a lot of them.
Speaker 4 00:32:45 It's like Coachella Kenna. Oh, fuck that. You don't like that. Hell nah. Too much. Like all the people that are going to
Speaker 2 00:32:55 Tell you, like,
Speaker 4 00:32:56 If there's three people there, I like it. You know what it's like? It's like going to a party with a bunch of fucking sweaty, dirty ass. God damn your own.
Speaker 1 00:33:08 The funny thing is, I'll be honest with you. The older I got the less, I liked that I liked like being around crowds and stuff
Speaker 4 00:33:15 And that music just kept back. That closes you as COVID what'd you call that music. EPMD.
Speaker 2 00:33:24 Electronic. Yeah. EPMD, KRS one. You got it.
Speaker 4 00:33:32 They played there. They probably do bullshit. Bullshit. Like it. I like it. So let's talk a little bit about, uh, yeah. You already not getting there. Cause I can see it. It's not easy to talk about. No, so we shall lie. Yeah. Okay. So hot, Jason, you want to take this question? Well, I already know how you are, but all these other people don't. So from your perspective on someone who's not quite, you know, white bread, American, you know what I mean? How did, uh, George Floyd deaths affect you?
Speaker 1 00:34:28 Um, yeah, I knew we were going to get to this. It's not that I, I, I, I don't mind talking about it. That's not the issue. The issue is, is I don't think people like hearing what I say about it. I mean, the way I look at it, I think that in America, white America has a really hard time taking accountability for anything. And that goes from the very inception of, from colonial times all the way up till today, they don't like to look at the fact that this country was built on stolen land than it was built on raping and pillaging and murdering and enslaving and incarcerating anybody that wasn't white and to the benefit of white men facts. And so when we come to Lake George Floyd jerk Floyd, isn't the first person that was killed by a white cop. He definitely wasn't the first black man killed by a white cop. And we're talking about centuries of this stuff. Um, how do I feel about it? I was pissed. I was pissed. Not so much that I knew. We all knew it was going to happen. We all knew that because it happens every day. So it wasn't a surprise. I was more pissed at some of the, I guess about that. I was, I was pissed off that so many white people were surprised and shocked by it because where the hell have you been?
Speaker 0 00:36:11 Well, I think for most Europeans white Americans, since everybody else has the blank American, right? I think for most European Americans, they just found out exactly what white privilege was because Trump was flaunting it. Right. And he was very proud of it. So now people are like, Oh, that's what they've been talking about now as a human being, I think you see this guy kneeling on someone's fucking neck for nine and a half minutes with all the care in the fucking world, the dude did not give it to shit. He did not have no respect for that human being. And then you got these assholes going, well, you had a criminal record. So fucking what dude. So what that doesn't. So you're telling me Derek Shelvin and his criminal record and all the shitty shit he did that gives me the right to go kneel on his fucking neck for nine, nine minutes. Right.
Speaker 1 00:37:16 And you hit the nail on the head with that, which is people like Shovan, didn't see George Floyd as a human being at all right from before. And that, and that, that's why with this case, like, I know they're trying to argue, um, whether or not it was premeditated, whether or not it w you know, what degree of murder it is, it's pretty fucking simple. If you asked me, right. Like we all saw what happened. Dude was already handcuffed on the ground. What was the danger? Why couldn't they let him sit up? If he was having a drug overdose and they saw that he was overdosing, why didn't they do their duty and call him assistance, get some help for him right away, all your overdose and shit. Let's call the EMT right now. They didn't do that. And what I saw in children's face, and I've seen it before in other people is pure hatred, cold, just pure hatred, nothing more because every time somebody came up and was trying to reason with him, was trying to plead with him, was to, to get him to get off of George Floyd's neck. He would dig in.
Speaker 4 00:38:42 Yeah. That's, you know, what really bothered me, um, was the children, that's all that, like how many children in that, when that, when it happened, you know, people were walking and going to the store or doing whatever they do in the neighborhood. And a lot of kids saw that. Right. And how does that changes your psyche and your brain and your emotional development as a human being, to watch somebody get murdered at seven years old and cry and tell the cop, Hey, get up. So not only that, but then how does that person look at any white male cop after that, with any level of, um, you know, comfort, right. Or that person is here to help me was fucked up, man. It was beyond fucked up. I can't even think of a word for it. And I know we talked a little bit about that during that. And I know as our, um, our crew of friends stayed in touch and man I'm, I was so furious. I couldn't, I couldn't articulate it really, you know, it was almost like a, like you said, J like a combination of gasoline, a match, and then a fire, you know, it was just like a perfect storm right there, because all the things that happened, um, after that just changed this country
Speaker 0 00:40:18 And in the world, I mean, look, how many other countries were protesting? I mean, it's pretty amazing that, that, that, that happened. I mean, here, if it wasn't for that girl. Yeah. They gotta got away with this shit.
Speaker 4 00:40:36 Talk about your, your COVID theory and then,
Speaker 0 00:40:40 Oh yeah. I just, part of it is, I think, I don't think the protests would have been as big as they were, if it wasn't for COVID with people not working and not, and people are already tired at that point or tired or sitting in their house. So now it's just like all that frustration and you know, like the government saying this and saying that, not knowing, and then you got Trump on top of all his other bullshit. Right? I mean, he's just a, he's just a straight up idiot. How can you ever say that dude? He was, he's a dumbest dude on the planet, man. He was a grifter man. You know, he's a con man,
Speaker 4 00:41:18 Man, no, he didn't run anything. No, no.
Speaker 0 00:41:21 He gives me 20 to get rich through that. And they all
Speaker 4 00:41:25 Know that, you know, we know the game.
Speaker 0 00:41:28 Right. You know, so I think it was just a combination of all that. And then you're sitting, watching this for,
Speaker 4 00:41:34 Go on and go on and go on. You're like, is this dude ever, it was almost like the beginning of fight to power when he played the whole Rodney King beating. You're like, Holy fucking shit, dude, are you kidding me, dude, survive that. Right. And then they're like, no one got convicted. And you're like, how can you not convict these dudes? They're beating the shit. Oh, I know. But I'm like, you know, if that dude doesn't go to jail, right. This is going to burn for sure. What's more insidious though, that Rodney King beating or this Man, I say they're the same man.
Speaker 1 00:42:18 The same in some ways. But I think this might be in some ways more, I think the fact that technology's improved so much now that it's spread all over the place on the internet. Right. Cause I don't think when Rodney King, when that all went down, I don't think it sparked international protests. I don't even know if it, I mean, I remember a little bit of protesting here in the twin cities, but not to the same degree.
Speaker 4 00:42:49 Well, I think the difference is, is this guys on the ground and you had two cops already sitting on them and you had a dude with his knee on his neck. Right. And everybody knows how helpless that feeling is. And you're watching this happen and you see PIs strolling down the fucking curb. I'm like, are you kidding me, dude?
Speaker 1 00:43:09 Yeah. Yeah. Unreal.
Speaker 4 00:43:12 Yeah. Whereas in human man really inhuman, you know, it's like, how do you live with yourself honestly? Or maybe it is really human, just attached to this, uh, you know, how we live with white supremacy, that we all understand that because I've done some evil things, you know? And, um, I haven't murdered a man, but I've thought about murdering the man. Right. You know, but I don't think I would ever do that to another human being. Even if it was like, you know, the grand dragon, could you live with yourself? I don't think I got could not, unless it was a defense of us. Um, or, uh, my friends and family and we had to survive or do something like that, like outright. Right. I don't want to, I don't want to hurt a bug on the ground. You know, like I avoid killing anything
Speaker 1 00:44:09 And I'll, and I'll picture killing a human being. That's handcuffed on the ground, pleading for his life and calling her his mother.
Speaker 4 00:44:19 I'm going to tell you right now, even if a dude had white power tattooed on his forehead and all kinds of other racist bullshit, I don't think I could do that to them. Right. That's cold blood. I mean, that's just that I'm not a murderer,
Speaker 1 00:44:35 But I think that goes back to that whole thing of like Shovan and people that are truly racist, they don't see people of color as human, the de-humanize. And so to them, because you could tell when Sheldon was out and his net, that dude showed no emotion, just like he is in the courtroom, he's showing zero fucking emotion and he's watching himself murder somebody over and over. Not to even like Gasper something.
Speaker 4 00:45:07 You know what I've been talking about this, um, show I watched where this, uh, I think it's the North high school football coach. Right? He was a, he's a cop. And he said, he knew that, you know, Sharvin was, uh, a no good piece of shit, but he never corrected it. You know, why not? He never tracked him. So I mean, all them guys are they're guilty. All of them. Well, I, you know, I think the problem with that is, is if you know someone who's going to take it to that level, are you actually going to check them? Let me tell you I would, but that's me. I don't know about this brother, but this brother was huge, man. He's a big dude and he had other cops too. And so his dad is a cop, but on this show, he just talked about, you know, how his experience changed afterwards, where families weren't, you know, trusting him or looked at him in a weird way or they weren't friendly anymore.
Speaker 4 00:46:28 And he was still coaching their kids. And even some of the players didn't like him. And he participated in, um, some of the riot control stuff that went down. Um, some of us being shot with rubber bullets or beat up or, you know, the stuff that cops do. Right. And so he was involved in all that man. And he gets to walk around and talk about how he didn't like that cop, but he didn't do shit about that dude. You know? And if he did do it, we don't know. So obviously I think he didn't check his ass. Yeah. Why would he, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 00:47:08 Well, I mean, he's right. Jane's right. I mean, that's what it comes down to.
Speaker 4 00:47:14 Cause you know what, that's a real talk cause there ain't nothing but a gang bro. And if your, one of your homeboys is banging hard, what you going to say? Right. Get that money. Right. Did that overtop right? Fucked up. I mean, you know
Speaker 3 00:47:37 What, because
Speaker 4 00:47:39 They got paid a lot over time bro. And the thing is, I know some cops that I work with that are trying to do things to correct that. And um, I didn't have said, you know, this is embarrassing, you know, I get it man. Yeah. But they have a, I mean, unfortunately this is the history. Yeah. I mean, let's talk about that. Why are police departments and existence in the first place? Because they needed to catch and enforce slave codes. Right. Right. I mean they did that to keep people in order. I think in general, they're just security guards for the rich and corporations. Well, Jason, that's exactly what I just said. Cause who owned all the land at him, you know, who sent them dudes out there with the one, two wouldn't straw hat and shit, riding on a horse to catch somebody, get a Billy Bob <inaudible>
Speaker 4 00:48:47 Right. And he might, you know, get an extra bottle. And two more cents I always remember is back in the eighties, a 14 year old kid was running from the cops and they shot this kid in the fucking back and they got away. He said, because he was fleeing the police or some fucking excuse of 14 year old kid. And they shot him. Like, I dunno, I asked Kiran, I couldn't remember his name, but um, yeah dude, they shot his ass up when you knew her. No, I guy, um, you remember black Bobby, Dave? It was his cousin I think
Speaker 3 00:49:32 Is that kid died? Yeah,
Speaker 4 00:49:33 He was, he who knows there, he's probably scared. Cause you know, all cops are and he's running like any other kid, like we used to do back in the day, enough time if we're getting in some battles and that they, he was jumping the fence and that cop just unloaded on him, shot him in the back and there's like, Oh that's okay. Good. Really? Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:49:53 I mean, that's that whole thing of dehumanizing though. Right? We're not seeing if there, I mean, it's almost, it's sick, but it's almost like a sport. You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 00:50:02 Well, I mean, that's how they're taught to right. Trained. Like, you know, this is a life and death situation all the time. You need to be aggressive and take control of the situation and all this other bullshit, but it perpetuates white supremacy basic course. Right. Of course. So when we talk about how to help and support communities like a deck today, it's almost a year later, um, we've all gone through being locked down because of COVID um, friends getting sick. Some of our friends didn't make it. Some of our family didn't make it. Um, so how does, what are you doing today to deconstruct white supremacy? Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:50:57 Well for the average person, I think talking about it and acknowledging that it exists, um, be that it's always existed. It hasn't gone anywhere and it doesn't matter Republican or Democrat. You gotta get that out of your head right away because yes, you can be a Democrat and a supposed progressive and liberal and still be super racist or have privilege. And I think a lot of people don't understand that. So you got to acknowledge it first and until white America does that, nothing's going to change. Yeah. So how do you acknowledge it? Direct action. You go out, like if you see something that's fucked up, like you see, you know, we all know what racism looks like. I don't care what anyone says. Yeah. We grew up with it. All of us, me on one end you guys on the other end. Right. And I seen it.
Speaker 1 00:51:50 I remember seeing it as a kid, you know, like I'd be hanging out with my friends and they'd be kids of color from God knows where all over the world, a lot of immigrant kids and whatever. And we'd go to the store and it was always like, they're either accused of stealing or they're getting followed in the store or they're getting chased down by other neighborhood kids or, and then being white, your question, why are you hanging out with them? Not by my family or anything, but like, you know, other neighbors. Cause he, you know, back in the day, especially like in South St Paul is pretty small community. It was one of those things where like everyone's parent was your parent. So if you messed it up, it didn't matter which parent patchy you're going to get whooped that sort of thing. So, but you know, you'd get questioned that as a kid, like why are you hanging out with so-and-so?
Speaker 1 00:52:48 And I'm like, well, I don't know, they're my friend or whatever. And it wasn't until I started getting older that I started realizing like, Oh wait a minute, you didn't like me hanging out with them because they're Vietnamese or you know what I mean? Right. Um, but yeah, going back to the whole thing of change in white supremacy and direct action, um, we, and I know this isn't a popular opinion, but with protests, for example, a lot of people, a lot of white people in particular, like to bring up Martin Luther King Jr. And talk about protest in that light that they'd like to see protests done that way
Speaker 4 00:53:28 Because
Speaker 1 00:53:30 Well, as they would put it a peaceful protest, right? Yeah. And I'm like, well that peaceful protest got a lot of people hurt, got a lot of people incarcerated and got his ass killed.
Speaker 4 00:53:45 Right. So you don't shit. What you're saying is you don't necessarily believe in nonviolent direct action. This is going to be very unpopular.
Speaker 1 00:53:57 Yeah. But it's the truth. No, because if your oppressor is willing to use violence to keep you down peaceful, isn't going to do shit period. They're not going to listen because they'll know that people will bend at the first sign of force against them. That's how I see it. Right. And the reason I say that is because again, for over 400 years, it's exactly what America has done. Every single right. Of all the, of the small few rights that nonwhite men have were all given an only a result of violence, whether it's workers' rights. And you look at the workers riots at the turn of the century, uh women's right. To vote in the suffrage suffrage movement, um, everything, everything that America has as its rights was a direct result of violence. Hell. Even this country itself, the declaration of independence, it was a violent insurrection against the British. Right. Right. So how is non-violence going to work? You think you're gonna be able to talk and reason with people
Speaker 4 00:55:10 Well like that. So I would know
Speaker 2 00:55:15 You speak for every white person because Dave is black and he speak, he represents every black person that's right.
Speaker 4 00:55:25 Fucking through the off. So how do you spam Jay? He threw you off. Yeah, he did. He fucked me up, man. Um, self-defense looks different than I would say. Um, direct action. Or could you say self-defense is direct action.
Speaker 1 00:55:49 Yeah. I think it is. I think self-defense is for sure. Direct action. I mean, like I look at it like this when I say directly defense. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I look at it like this. Am I going to go out and grab my shotgun or an AR 15 or AK or something and start shooting at, uh, white communities in order to like, you know what I mean? Right. That's
Speaker 4 00:56:16 Not what I'm saying. That's not what you got to do. No,
Speaker 1 00:56:19 But what I am saying is this, if cops continue to shoot and kill people of color, you gotta defend yourself. And at some point, I mean, cause we see what standing by does
Speaker 4 00:56:36 No, you know what? They don't pay out. Nope. They don't respect that.
Speaker 1 00:56:41 No. And they know that they can use that against people. So,
Speaker 4 00:56:45 But the thing is, if you pick up the gun, that's a whole another story you gotta be prepared to do that. That's right. Absolutely. Um, on all levels, right?
Speaker 1 00:56:58 I mean, you have to, the thing is, is like, and again, I know this is an unpopular opinion, especially around, uh, white folk, but it's the truth. And the truth is this. If, if, if peaceful protesting worked, why just now in this last election, did we get a woman in the oval office? After the implication, there are up until president Obama. Why did it take centuries? And over 40 presidents before the first president of color was elected. If peaceful protests work, why are we still after centuries talking about people, having people, all people as Americans having equity and equal rights, right? Why has it taken so many laws? So many centuries? It doesn't make sense because peaceful protest doesn't work. But you look at the counter of that. America comes in violently, the colonials came in, they were violent. They took everything. They started establishing their roots, uh, there under the English rule. They're like, you know what, fuck you, England. We're going to fight back. So through violence, right? The revolutionary war, they take their country and turn it into a country or they take their land, turn it into a country. And then they continue to commit genocide and eradicate native people or to try to assimilate them. They steal their children and try to turn them into good little white kids. Right. They enslave human beings and profit off of their lives.
Speaker 4 00:58:56 Hey, what'd he talk about those white people worked hard. Those, those Brown people are lazy. They don't want to work.
Speaker 1 00:59:05 There's the kid. Here's the kicker. After all of that, those same white people are going to turn around and say, how dare you be violent towards me after everything I've done to get you to this point? Or you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 00:59:23 It wasn't me. It was uh, somebody in my family back in the day.
Speaker 2 00:59:30 No, I like watching football and basketball. Right.
Speaker 1 00:59:34 I mean, I, I, I'm honest with people about it too. Cause they asked me all the time. They're like, well, you're an immigrant. Your family didn't have anything. I'm like, yeah, I'm white. It doesn't matter. Right. I benefit. I benefit. No matter what period. End of story.
Speaker 4 00:59:49 You get other white people a question and why you like hanging out with me and Dre not no more though, right?
Speaker 1 00:59:58 No, I don't care. Anyway. I mean, I haven't thought about that. I don't know if I've ever thought about it, but yeah,
Speaker 4 01:00:02 You don't get white people walking up to you at a store saying like, why are you hanging out with those guys saying like really racist shit to you? Cause they think you might be.
Speaker 1 01:00:14 But I would, I would suspect that if we're hanging out somewhere and people see us hanging out, they're going to look at me as being like, Oh, he's fucked up somehow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:00:31 Well let me, <inaudible> fucked up. Tell him about when you and your brother went
Speaker 4 01:00:38 Down to the, where was it? The government center at the DMV.
Speaker 1 01:00:41 Oh, that's funny. It was for my name change. Actually we went down, we went down to do my name chase. We had to go to the Hennepin County court, whatever. Cause he got to go see a judge and all that. And I dressed up, you know, I had a shirt and tie and stuff looking for, you know, I want it to look somewhat clean and respectable. And I, my brother shows up with a track jacket now for people that don't know, like, uh, uh, I've got a lot of tattoos and uh, my brother's got a lot of tattoos and we both just so happened to have some gold teeth and we look like Slavs, like Slavic people. So we're standing, uh, going through the metal detectors and stuff and uh, other people are going to court and stuff and they're all dressed in their suits and whatever. And I remember looking over at my brother, cause people kept staring at us and I was like, Oh shit out. You know why they're staring at us? He's like, I have no idea. And I'm like, I guarantee you. They think we're like some Russian mobsters or something guaranteed. They just started speaking Russia. Now we could've spoke Serbian and they wouldn't have known the difference. So, but guaranteed. Cause they, they probably looked over and like
Speaker 2 01:02:02 Nice little, pretty cute. I will
Speaker 4 01:02:06 Super funny deal. Well, yeah. Cause there's still that, you know, you're white dude with tattoos. People still get scary.
Speaker 1 01:02:15 Oh yeah, for sure. It is what it is. Whatever. I definitely made a conscious choice.
Speaker 0 01:02:23 I mean, I think the other thing too, that people gotta remember, um, when they're listening to this is that we know there's a lot of allies and we know there's a lot of people that are down. It's just that, you know, they might think it's one sided, but it's not because most of the people I know here in Minnesota in Minneapolis are white. No shit. Right. It should be right. That's the whole plan. Right. So it's like it, they, you know, it's like, um, for example, like there's guys, I work with that. Don't live in the city and they're always like, Oh, you think it's going to burn down? Why are they rebuilding that area? It's just going to burn down. And I'm like, yeah, if he doesn't get convicted. Yeah. There's a whole lot of shit. That's going to burn down. And I got news for it's going to be worse in the end. The thing is that people also got to remember it's the kids from the suburbs that came down and burnt the city down. Right? All those people that got caught burning shit down were from the suburbs, not Minneapolis. Right? Yeah. There's people alluding that were from Minneapolis. But yo dude, if you're broke, I'm not saying this right. But if you ain't got shit and the doors are wide open.
Speaker 1 01:03:44 Yeah. I have a different take on that too though. They locked the North side down. Right, right. And I get it like mom and pop stores, whatever. As long as they're not exploiting the neighborhood hands-off but a big corporation, somebody that's used to making a lot of money and capitalizing off of poor people, fuck them. Target said, I'm gonna rebuild right here. They got money. And that's the other funny thing. Like I remember a foot locker I got in like some, I think it might've might've even been on Facebook or something, but people were complaining about like all the looting and stuff. And I'm like, seriously, you're going to complain about like, so a kid goes into a, uh, you know, target or whatever off Lake street runs out with a pair of tennis shoes and a candy bar that's sits, you're pissed off about, but the fact that the U S spent $750 billion every single year for over a decade on war machines. You're not mad about that. Or you're not mad about the fact that we're spending hundreds of billions of dollars written into the corporation's business plan of bailout money. So if their businesses fail, guess what they get. They get that bailout.
Speaker 0 01:05:05 Yeah. But even more than that is, they're mad about loading, but they're not mad about the cop kneeling on someone until he's dead. No, they're not. And that shows you right there. They care about money more than they care about people,
Speaker 3 01:05:22 Which is why we have cots to protect those assets.
Speaker 0 01:05:25 Yeah. And those people don't come here anyways. All right. Those comments. No, they don't. Oh, never come to Minneapolis. You don't come here anyway. Dummy would come here for a Vikings game or something. And then you run back home and you act like you're tough. Cause you're like, I wasn't in Minneapolis last night. Yeah.
Speaker 4 01:05:42 Nope. They come down here, get diarrhea, rip up my bathrooms. And then they back.
Speaker 3 01:05:50 Well, you don't like when Kathy from farewell, uh, comments on, we want our city back. Yeah. You don't even live here. What are you talking about? I seen so much of that online.
Speaker 4 01:06:02 I can't even, I can't even do social media, man. I can't believe you still do that.
Speaker 3 01:06:08 It is fun. It is fun.
Speaker 0 01:06:10 Get yourself worked up for nothing damn Russians.
Speaker 4 01:06:15 I told you those fucking bastards are rolling. Everything, everything, everything. Now that now you can't even have a goddamn Coke. What is that true?
Speaker 3 01:06:24 I sparkling eyes. It's water basically.
Speaker 4 01:06:28 Yep. Made by Gulf Gullah.
Speaker 3 01:06:31 Is it? It might be, I don't know.
Speaker 0 01:06:34 There was GMO's and pesticides and then water. What's next. Were you mad for me?
Speaker 4 01:06:42 I mean, in your journey, you know what? I never even asked you, what do you do for fun?
Speaker 3 01:06:46 I'll tell you what I do. I got PTSD trauma. So I've been on disability for God. It's gotta be 15 years now. Hold on.
Speaker 4 01:06:56 Wait a minute, one second. You got PTSD. That's right. You're an immigrant. That's right. You get a check from the government. That's right. Holy shit. Yup.
Speaker 0 01:07:09 You lucky you ain't Brown. God, you're lucky you ain't.
Speaker 3 01:07:12 I'm saying. And that's the lottery.
Speaker 0 01:07:16 That's the funny thing is that's what people think. Like they think this mother fucker's living though.
Speaker 3 01:07:21 Nah, let me break it down for you. So I am eligible for food stamps or for snap, right? You know how much I get for Nope. $14 a month. Yup. Because they take it from what you get for your disability. So my disability check per month, $718. And that's social security, right? Yep. That's th that's my two forms of income. I get,
Speaker 4 01:07:47 Do you get a MSA to no, you can get, you can get another, I think 93 or $98,
Speaker 0 01:07:55 Man. If you just had more kids. Cause you know, that's what people don't know.
Speaker 4 01:07:58 That'd be a series. You could, you could add another, I think 98 or something like that. 93 or 98. Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:08:06 Yeah. It might be way. So here's, here's the, the funny thing that the goofy thing about it is how do you expect people to live on less than a thousand
Speaker 1 01:08:16 Dollars a month?
Speaker 4 01:08:17 The plan is that you don't great that that's the plan. They want you to work until you die. Of course there is no plan for, you know, uh, you know, you have to get disability because you know, true disability would be, you know, your, your housing is paid for, um, your health care is paid for. Right.
Speaker 1 01:08:39 Were how about the, how about the fact that it's the country itself that ended up in a lot of ways traumatizing me, right? Yeah. So, and I'll tell you what a lot of my traumas are. A lot of my traumas have to do with literally, uh, putting myself out there against racist. Yeah. I got beat up by a bike club because at the time I was a punk. Yeah. Because I had a shaved head and uh, was hanging out with, uh, uh, multi, uh, racial group of friends of mine at a bar. And as bike club came up and they led pipe to the back of my head and I went down and woke up in the hospital and terrible man. Yeah. I mean, so like,
Speaker 0 01:09:26 No, they did more than that. Then you make it sound like all day, just hit me once. No,
Speaker 1 01:09:32 I got a straight up boot party. Like I had. Yeah. It was a nightmare, but long story, short, long story short is, uh, that's just one of many, many, many incidents of trying to do the right thing. And you know, people are like, how does this always happen? You know? I'm like, cause I don't stop. I don't, I'm not going to turn my back. If I see somebody that needs help. Yeah. And a lot of people do. Yep. But I can't do that. Yeah. I stopped, I don't know. Uh, two separate occasions. Uh, um, well, one, a woman was actively being raped when, uh, Hank moon and actually Henry, if you listening out there, he says, he doesn't remember this, but I remember it we're a ground zero. I was working there at the time doing security. And he was deejaying and a woman was getting raped behind ground zero on the hood of her car.
Speaker 1 01:10:24 And we went running out there. We throttled the dude, you know, like, but a lot of people there's other people around, they could have heard, they could've stopped. They could have done anything. They didn't do anything. How the hell did you hear that? Cause we were walking out a back door to our car to go to, it was the end of the night, walking out to go to our cars or whatever. And we heard this screaming, you know, I could see people walking on the sidewalk and stuff and nobody was doing anything. That's fucking terrible.
Speaker 0 01:10:55 That means he didn't bring it upon herself. You know, people like to say stupid shit. She left wearing a short skirt.
Speaker 1 01:11:00 Well now Minnesota passed this thing where uh, if a woman has a drink, she can't claim rape. Did you hear about that?
Speaker 0 01:11:10 Yeah. So you're saying
Speaker 1 01:11:14 Like, you can just rape whoever you want.
Speaker 4 01:11:16 Can't be the law right now. I don't think the governor was signing that in the law. I don't know. Maybe it was like,
Speaker 1 01:11:22 I think it is. I might have to look it up, but I
Speaker 0 01:11:25 Think that's another episode might've been.
Speaker 4 01:11:29 Right, right, right. I just think, I think too, like you to talk about trauma and PTSD, Tampa post-traumatic stress disorder. Right. We all have that to some degree, you know, more than others.
Speaker 1 01:11:49 I think our immediate friend group. Oh yeah. Without a doubt. No doubt. I don't think there's one of us that doesn't have it.
Speaker 4 01:11:56 Oh, no doubt. I mean, you know, we're all walking examples of that. And I got my own scars. I can't speak for Jay or none dude, but I got it. Right.
Speaker 0 01:12:11 No, I honestly, I seriously, I mean, I think it's in there. I just don't know. Um, you know, like day to day, how it affects, I know how poverty and all that stuff has affected my family for generations and that kind of trauma is passed down and that kind of stuff. But unfortunately for, for kids and, and, and kids like us that grow up in it, it just becomes normal. Yeah. Unfortunately it's just like, this is the way it is, dude. Yeah. Oh, well all you see your mom get beat the shit out of, by your dad. And like, it looks like, uh, animal got slaughtered in your kitchen. Oh, that's that's fucking normal. Right. But when you talk to people who don't, that never grew up around that their, their minds explode. Yeah. They're horrified. Right. But for us, we grew up in violence.
Speaker 1 01:13:07 The weird thing is I was thinking about that though. I think in some ways that's why we gravitated towards each other. And that's why we gravitated towards the type of music we like and the type of lifestyle. You know what I mean?
Speaker 0 01:13:23 Well, I think what happens too, is that kind of thing also makes you stick up for people because when you're feeling helpless and you can't help your mom and you're scared and you're a little kid or something like that, you grew up like this shit ain't going to happen when I get big. No, you know, that's real talk. That's real talk. Yep. I agree.
Speaker 4 01:13:43 We got to get Aaron on this show to ask her that's my homie right there, man. You're a good guy, man. We appreciate you coming to talk to us, man. You know, I love you guys. We love you too. We love you too.
Speaker 1 01:13:59 Hey, and for anybody listening that I know that knows Ilhan Omar. Yes. Can somebody try to get her on the show? Like I know some people I know are going to listen to this that know her. Yeah. So I mean, Keith,
Speaker 3 01:14:13 He said he was going to, I heard him say it, but it might take a little time. Let me take some time.
Speaker 0 01:14:19 I know. I know it will eventually, eventually
Speaker 3 01:14:21 There's a lot going on. Right. So yeah. That'd be interesting to know too. Like, so as this trial, this trial is expected to go on for like another week, right? Yup. Man, what's going to happen.
Speaker 0 01:14:35 No, if we, if we don't, I don't think justice war.
Speaker 3 01:14:39 Oh, that much I agree with. I don't think it will lead it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 01:14:42 Justice. Well, in my opinion, I don't think he can, uh, sit in a jail cell for the rest of his life and that's justice. I think he, the only way
Speaker 3 01:14:56 I know justice
Speaker 4 01:14:59 Tali on, which is, and I, and I live by that. I know you do. And that's, what's kept me safe, you know? Yeah. And so when I tell people don't push me. Cause what you take is what you're going to receive.
Speaker 0 01:15:18 Yeah. But if you think about Muhammad Nore, he spent in 12 years, 12 and a half years in prison for shooting that Australia woman.
Speaker 3 01:15:25 Yeah. I know. But man, I don't know. I agree with Dave. I don't think justice is going to be, I don't think there's going to be any justice
Speaker 4 01:15:32 Justice either. Right. You know, they, they just, you know, they threw him to the wolves, man.
Speaker 0 01:15:40 Well, some people might say they're doing that to him too. I mean the police chief and he's got other people testifying that like this was the first time this has ever happened in a police car. Yup.
Speaker 3 01:15:50 That's the goofy part is that that's how they're acting like it's never happened before. Yeah,
Speaker 4 01:15:55 I know. Right? The first time you caught us on camera
Speaker 3 01:15:59 And we saw our slave masters on a dollar bills and stuff like why the hell did that's what's so funny about people being so surprised.
Speaker 4 01:16:07 Dirty is vial, slave masters. I'm going to take your teeth and I'm going to make teeth for myself. Wow. Washington. Oh my God. God help us.
Speaker 3 01:16:19 Yeah. Just it's bam. Like why are we still, why are they still on our money seriously? Right. That's not, that's not.
Speaker 4 01:16:27 I can tell you why you want to know if y'all want to know. I do want to know Satan, come here screen.
Speaker 0 01:16:43 Why? Cause they really liked to see the slave masters rolled up and Colt just it up through that tunnel.
Speaker 4 01:16:53 I think, I don't know if there's an explanation for it man. Cause I think white people just be in like, man, I like being on top. Put the dirty as grimy as
Speaker 3 01:17:03 You know what you're absolutely right. I guarantee it.
Speaker 4 01:17:08 I'm going to make you not only acknowledged that as there, you're going to want to hold him in your pocket. Right. And then in your bank account. Right. And you can't get shit unless you use that slave masters image to get it. And you're going to, it's going to be reinforced every day, all day forever. That's crazy. They're the worst, their worst thing. Any gang man that ideology of white supremacy. You've been listening to sticks and stones with Jason Nevels and David Jefferies. And we'd like to thank our special guest Healia <inaudible> historian, scholar, motherfuckers, the unofficial mayor.
Speaker 3 01:17:58 How are you making great laugh? Oh boy. Winston's manager. You know what I'm saying? Oh my pleasure, man. I love it. I love you guys. So anytime we know you hate talking, I don't think Aaron would agree with you next week, by the way. That's dope. I don't know exactly sticks. And stones was brought to you by AFAI and our wonderful producer in this Hill music by Mike and Janet Crenshaw under the sun.
