Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 These views and opinions and comments in this pod cash on this station do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions by this station broadcast, especially these two who speaks, said words or opinions over the air. If you have a complaint about something or find you're thin skinned, maybe you should turn this off and mind your own business. Like good sheeple. Hello. Welcome to sticks and stones. Our first guest today is Minnesota attorney general. Keith Ellison, this chief here are you doing, Hey, Keith, how you doing, man? This is David. This is Jason. David. Do you want to, my friend, we do. We're doing all right. We appreciate you taking the time to talk to us, man. Oh yeah, man. I, you know, w we're together, man. No problem with that.
Speaker 1 00:01:18 Um, so we're going to jump right into the questions so we can, um, so we can move forward here and, uh, sound good. Have a good conversation. So, um, so tell us about your podcast and, um, uh, affording your live with Keith Ellison and how's that been going for you?
Speaker 0 00:01:40 Well, it's been going good, you know, um, given all of the, uh, you know, all the stuff between George Floyd and the pandemic and everything, you know, we've been, you know, working to make sure we come out with regular episodes, but so we have some things coming out real soon. And, uh, you know, the reason I do it is because I think that, um, one of the biggest challenges people are having nowadays and have been really since the 1980s is simply affording their lives for the, if you cannot afford your insulin, then you will ration it. And if you ration it, your body can slide into lots of doses and you can die. That's exactly what happened to Alex Smith. His mother, Nicole Holtz Smith has been on a campaign to make sure everybody can afford their insulin. And that's a tragedy that should happen to no family.
Speaker 0 00:02:34 Also like right now, we saw with the cold snap a few weeks ago, you know, now natural gas prices are going to be considerably higher going forward for people how's that going to work out? You know, when it, if it gets cold again, uh, if people need to be able to pay for air conditioning, cause in Minnesota, it can get a hundred degrees as you know, and I know, and you know how people are going to deal with that. And then, you know, the wages have been stagnated, the minimum wage hasn't gone up since 2009. And yet the big companies denying people, a $15 minimum wage, um, are raking in all kinds of money, you know, Amazon and all the rest of them. You know, it's just, it's really rough out there economically. And that's even worse for people who are racial minorities. You know, I mean the bottom line is the average white home, the average Minnesota homeowner, about 78% of all Minnesota is on their own home.
Speaker 0 00:03:28 And after black folks, you go down to, you know, less than a quarter. Um, you know, and, and you know, and so if it's tough for everybody, it's tougher for people who, uh, face social, um, barriers and historic barriers. Uh, so, you know, I think people need to be able to afford their lives, you know, earn a decent wage, get a decent retirement, uh, afford the medicine and the healthcare. They need get a good education without going into massive debt. You know, I mean, join a union, have a voice on the job, be able to, you know, if you have a baby, be able to take some time out, paid with that child, you know, um, these are the, that's what the point of affording your life is to just talk about the economics that regular people deal with every day. You know, now you turn on the tune, they'll tell you about the Dow Jones, industrial average. Sometimes they'll tell you about the unemployment rate, but they won't really tell you what that really means. But at the end of the day, people need economic news they can use. And so that's what affording your life is all about.
Speaker 2 00:04:40 Right. You know, I always, um, I struggle with, with the way news is delivered to, uh, to, to people in this country, especially to poor communities and communities of color, um, I've always felt like I'm not getting, uh, uh, the truth, you know? And so I appreciate the fact that you have a medium that you can communicate to people with, um, that talks about real life issues. So
Speaker 0 00:05:13 Yeah, well like, like, so w what we need to know is how does pay late payday lending actually work? How does payday lending work? Why, why is my utility bill out of control? And how can I get some help to pay it? Right. I started this small business and I'm struggling. I'm hearing about other, other big companies getting help. And my, can I get me help? What is, how does it, what happens if they deny my unemployment? Can I challenge that? Or is that just what I got to live with? All these things are what people should be. Should we need more information on that? Because you know, you go into communities, people are proud. They don't want you to know they're struggling, but they are struggling. They really are. So I kind of feel like that isn't nothing new. Unfortunately, most of us
Speaker 3 00:05:58 Like me growing up on the North side, it seems like it's always like that. No matter who's president, no matter, it's kinda like you just get kind of bulldozed so much that you just like, this is normal.
Speaker 0 00:06:13 No, you know what? And so that's, that's part of what, um, affording your life is all about too, to just sell people and say, this it's not normal. You know, let me say, I'm not trying to say that it was ever great for working people in America. But I will say that in 1957, one person could take care of a family of four or one salary. Now that's impossible. Not in 1957. Wasn't so great. We had segregation, a woman couldn't get a credit card in her own name. If you happen to be a gay person, you better not tell nobody, but one person could feed a family of four 30, 3% of all Americans were in a union. Another 33% were paid as if they were, you could buy a house as a working class person. You could, maybe you, you could get the GI bill, go to college, get some education, but now it's a lot tougher than it used to be.
Speaker 0 00:07:10 And I'm telling you, you can compare the United States of today to the United States of say 15 years ago. And regular people were doing better. If you ever thought about how it seemed like grandpa and grandma and mom and dad actually seemed to have more money than you got, do you ever, ever, ever wonder, like, why am I 32 years old living in my parents' basement? And I went to college, I went to school just like everybody said, I needed to, why do I have all this student loan debt? Dad didn't go to college. He's a big, he was a, he did a working class job. He was a blue collar guy, but somehow he able to buy this house. I mean, it's just different things have changed. The shape of the economy has changed. You got a lot of people with college degrees making minimum wage.
Speaker 0 00:08:01 And that's why you see a lot of folks demanding unions now, because you know, it's not just a matter of education. Getting good education is not the only answer. First. They'll dump a bunch of student loan debt on your shoulders, right? And then they won't pay you nothing because you cannot bargain for better because they, the unions have been destroyed and not totally, they're still fighting, but you, like I said, used to be 33% unionization. Now we're in single digit and it's just tougher. You got no voice on the job, your paycheck going to get her. She's going to show that,
Speaker 3 00:08:35 Hey, Keith, I got a question for you. How did the insurrection on January six in DC affect your work as a G in Minnesota?
Speaker 0 00:08:44 Well, put it like this. A lot of the people who were at that January 6th erection were in Minnesota weeks before, um, giving me all kinds of problems with trying to get them to, uh, comply with the, um, executive orders to protect people from COVID. A lot of them, they took pictures. I mean, it's the same people who think it's okay to storm the Capitol. Some of them them are the same people to think that COVID is fake and they're going to, they're going to just do whatever they want to spread. COVID. I mean, that's sort of the deal there, you know, also, you know, I mean, um, so, so, you know, and it's the same basic attitude that we keep seeing that the election was stolen. COVID is fake. There's no such thing as global warming, I'm going to have my guns, as many as I want and cake take them wherever I want and do whatever I want that same kind of mentality that doesn't respect the fact that other people live in our community. Other people are, uh, have rights. Other people needs to be respected. Um, th that's kind of what, what is prevailing, but, you know, um, I have not, um, you know, uh, sued anybody who went to January 6th insurrection. Um, I don't know if I, if I have jurisdiction to do so, but, uh, you know, it's just the same basic way of looking at the world that Trump has. Everybody can go to hell and I do whatever I want.
Speaker 2 00:10:19 You know, the other thing that, that was, you know, we were on that topic too. But the other thing before we, uh, before you called, but the other thing I wanted to bring up, um, that's, uh, related to that is, you know, there's always been, uh, uh, an element of, uh, white supremacy in this country where people who like the clan or, uh, area in brotherhood, or, you know, you can name, I can, we can go on and on about the groups. Th the thing that gets me man, is that we all know how cops, and sometimes even law enforcement can be really militant when it comes to meeting, um, black lives matter protesters or people who are women against military madness, or, you know, moms out in the hood who, who care about, you know, violence and the police are militaristically and all, and that day, man, January 6th, we were just talking about that. We didn't see any of that. Any of that militancy towards those people rioting and causing an insurrection at the Capitol in DC, not one, it was terrible, man,
Speaker 0 00:11:38 Pretty disappointed. Well, you know, there was a few officers who one officer lost several fingers. As, you know, at least they say seven people died, two people took their lives. Um, it was a horrible tragedy. And, you know, if you go, if you just run the tape back a few weeks, they did have soldiers deployed at the Capitol ready for BLM protestors. It's just, you just can't deny it. It's beautiful. Right. Right. And, um, you know, the thing about it is man, is that, uh, those, those folks who stormed the capital, many of them are being criminally prosecuted. Right? That's a good thing. You know, that's a good thing. And you know, some of those officers who tried to do the right thing, stop these people from destroying stuff. That was a good thing. But you know, it goes to show, you know, these protesters, you know, they, they were to my hang Mike Pence, and everybody knows Mike Trump's most loyal ally. They in a, in an instant, they turned on him and were crying for blood. So, I mean, it's really these, these somebody, and by the way, they're waving Confederate flags. You know, even during the civil war, there was no Confederate flag being waved in the Capitol. They, some of them had tee shirts that said camp Auschwitz. They all know what that means.
Speaker 0 00:13:05 That means that means murdered Jewish people. That's what that means by as many as they can. Well, I went to Poland and I went to Auschwitz and it was a murder factory. There ain't no other way to put it and to wear a t-shirt like, that is so hateful. It's hard to describe.
Speaker 3 00:13:24 I'm surprised. Uh, why are they talking about charging these people with treason?
Speaker 0 00:13:30 You say, why are they, why
Speaker 3 00:13:32 Are they aren't? Why aren't they talking about it?
Speaker 0 00:13:35 Um, you know, you know, you know, brother, I don't really know. I mean, the thing is most of them are charged with an illegal entry, you know, which is kind of a form of trespass. Some of them are charged with theft. There was some low 22 year old kid. She stole, uh, you know, a Nancy Pelosi's, um, computer. And she was trying to sell it to the Russians or something like that. That seems like a treasonous act. And there were many others horrible things that happened. Um, we'll see how much time these folks get. Um, you know, but I will tell you this, it's a clear sign that organizing coming together, standing together, being involved in what's happening in society is extremely important. If you care about a fair economy where everybody can do well, if you believe that everybody, no matter what color they are deserves to be respected and included. If you believe those things, man, you gotta come together and organize, organize, organize. Cause the people who believe in racial hierarchy, that some people are better than others and that rich deserved everything. And that the rich people don't have enough money and the poor half too much, those people clearly they are organized and murderously ready to take over the country.
Speaker 2 00:14:58 And so like on that theme, how has that belief in a lie that the election was stolen by some men? So this changed your approach to engaging rural and suburban citizens in this state.
Speaker 0 00:15:13 Well, you know, it's funny thing about rural and suburban communities. You know, when I, when I, when I went up to Eli, not more than three weeks ago, I saw some of the most, open-minded awesome people you've ever want to meet. You know, you'd be surprised. There's all kinds of folks all everywhere. And really, you know, when you sit down and talk to people, even some Trump supporters, you know, you talk to them, the problem is we don't talk to each other, right? So like, if you, if you, if you are, um, you let's just say you used to work in a plant and it closed down, moves to Mexico, and then it's selling those same products back into the United States, but with very cheap labor, right. You know, you, you don't really know, you might not know who did it or why it happened or whether it, what it has to do with our trade laws or, and then you get somebody coming over the radio, like rush Limbaugh who just passed away saying, Oh, it's Mexicans, Oh, it's somebody doing this to you.
Speaker 0 00:16:13 You know, people don't know, they'd be like, well, I heard on the radio that some guy was because of the Mexican, you know, and, and you know, so, so you get a guy like Russ, remember you get a guy like rush Limbaugh who inspires a guy like Newt Gingrich who inspires a guy like, you know, Trump. Right. And what we're really talking about is a lack of it. We talked about people one in a bad situation to, they're given an explanation for the bad situation, which is Brown people, right. For the government or the governor or the government, you know, the government and Hillary Clinton, you know, and they're told that, you know, I mean, the election is just the latest lie. They were told that, that, uh, Barack Obama was born in Cuba, in Kenya. And they were told a lot of lies. We've gotta be able to get into communities, engage with communities, share information, and give people a chance to make a better decision. You know,
Speaker 3 00:17:11 I have a question. Um, it's kind of not on that whole subject, but I was curious, um, back in the day you had the ball, these do security for, uh, or asked them to do security for the first four, uh, uh, thing you guys had at the Capitol. Do you remember that?
Speaker 0 00:17:33 I don't remember. That does apply. If you could give me a few more details.
Speaker 3 00:17:37 It was like the black lawyers association that's from the, you, you guys had, like, I can't remember why you guys were at the Capitol, but those guys had did security or whatever it make sure.
Speaker 0 00:17:52 Well, tell me, tell me what you want to know about it. Maybe I maybe I'll ring a bell for me.
Speaker 2 00:17:57 Was it a, I think it was a white student union that, that, uh, I can't remember his name. The man it'd been some, you know, some white kid that was a neo-Nazi was pretending that he, this, you know, white grievance politics, trying to get a white student
Speaker 0 00:18:14 Union when I was back in college.
Speaker 2 00:18:16 Yeah. This was when you at the U.
Speaker 0 00:18:19 Oh, okay. Yeah. So there was a, there was a friend of mine named Karen <inaudible>. Yup. That's our buddy here is an awesome guy, friend of mine. And Kiran, you know, was just saying that, Hey, look, if you're going to have a white student union rally, we're going to have a multicultural student rally before it. And so when the neo-Nazis showed up, one of them attacked Kiran with a metal object. Karen didn't know what it was here and just happened to have a flashlight, swung, whatever he had in his hand and stopped from being stabbed. And it turns out that it was brass knuckles. So then Karen gets charged with second degree assault. And I ended up having to represent him in court and he gets found not guilty on all counts, but yeah, they charged him and we won. But yeah, that was back in nine by 1989, 1991 or two or something like that. Yeah. Does that mean you guys got good memories,
Speaker 2 00:19:23 Man? That's all we got left. Really. That's how we,
Speaker 0 00:19:30 So yeah, but yeah, no, you go ahead. I was going to say, you know, so, you know, I mean, I, I've been trying to stand for a fair society, a society where people of all colors, all cultures, all face can be, can be treated with respect. You know, people who are white, black, native, whatever you are, God made you that way. You have a right to be that. And, and the fact that some people are like, well, you guys are lesser because you're not the right color. I mean, I've always been opposed to that thinking. Right. And I hope I go to my grave with being against that, you know, because, you know, we're all, we all have a right to be here and, you know, and you know, some people don't agree. No, no people are getting louder and more aggressive. Right. You know, you know, before, before they were swinging Confederate flags, they, you know, you saw the, the guys at Charlottesville talking about Jews will not replace us.
Speaker 0 00:20:32 And you know what I mean? All that. And so, you know, the hate movement is, um, uh, alive and well, sadly, you know, we, we can't fight hate with hate. We got to fight hate with love. That means bringing together, talking about our shared common humanity and having each other's back with that too, you know, just not letting them, you know, not saying, no, you're not going to look down this gay person. You're not going to down this person with, uh, with a, with a, just, you know, who has a disability, we're all going to stand for each other and that's how we're gonna make it.
Speaker 2 00:21:09 So, you know, a follow up question to that. Um, I know that there is a rise of, uh, white terrorism, Minnesota. Uh,
Speaker 0 00:21:19 Nope. Well, yeah. And we'll all over the country, all over the world. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:21:23 And so, as your role as attorney general in this state, what's your role in our, how do you protect citizens here from that, knowing that this has grown here?
Speaker 0 00:21:40 Well, one of the main things I do is I ring the alarm bell. So one, I saw, I pulled together a group and went all over the state, talking about this, particularly to rural communities, greater Minnesota, you know? Uh, cause we want to talk to everybody. We don't want to assume anybody is not interested in hearing what we have to say and that's how come I know that if you go to greater Minnesota, there's a lot of people who believe in human equality and human dignity, I've met him. I talked to them. Right. Um, and um, the other thing I do is I, you know, help work with, you know, County attorneys and police and work on, uh, legislation to make it easier to hold these people accountable in the law. If they do racially motivated assaults on people, you know, um, my office generally does not do the direct prosecution of these folks. Uh, if we are called upon, we can do it. But you know, mostly what we do is we convene people. We do public education and we stand for people and encourage people to do what is right and good. Right? So that's mostly how we deal with it.
Speaker 2 00:22:50 And I, you know, I have this, this belief too, um, just from my upbringing, that solidarity is, uh, is, is how you fight fascism. You know, and we, as, as young men and women and young, uh, binary people in this country have always organized around. Um, and my comrades, I should say too, we have always organized and around that principle of solidarity, um, and it's good to hear that you're taking that, that idea of each one, teach one and going out to, you know, um, Northern Minnesota or Southern Minnesota where you don't see a lot of Brown faces. And if you do, to be honest with you there in the fields, doing work and nine brothers and sisters who, who, don't the language who come up here to try to get, you know, our money for their families. Um, have you had much, um, time to communicate to those folks? You know, the people who are working on them farms.
Speaker 0 00:23:58 Yes. Yes. And it's the farms, but it's also the meat packing plants. Um, whether it's mostly Southern Minnesota, central, Minnesota, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's really, they're really all over it. I'd say this, the more you go out to rural Minnesota, greater Minnesota, you, it starting to, you starting to see a lot of diversity anywhere and everywhere you go, you know, I'm telling you, you know, you know, you go to right now more in Morehead, Minnesota, there's a black, there's a black man. Who's the mayor of the city. If you know, um, in Morehead. Yes. Wow. You know, I mean really, you know, you'd be surprised, man. People are, you know, showing up in places that you don't expect them. You know? I mean, even I have been surprised thinking, okay, well, I'm just going to go down here to Mankato. Well, there's a large number of people of color in there.
Speaker 0 00:24:51 And they come there with their white friends, you know? I mean, they're mostly, I think, I think human solidarity is a natural thing. I really believe that hatred and race hatred needs to be taught. Right? You need to help, you know, promote, you got to actively promote it or it dies out. People naturally look at each other, um, for aid and comfort and mutual support, no matter what, you know, background they may be, you know? Um, and so, you know, that's what we got. That's all we gotta be now. That's why I'm really glad you guys are doing this show because if you guys do keep this up, you don't know who's going to hear it and you might inspire somebody and they, you know, they might do, you know, they might go inspire somebody and then people still might go inspire somebody after that.
Speaker 2 00:25:40 So we didn't tell you, once you get on the show, you got to like help us pitch the next person. We didn't tell you about that part. Well, we was thinking you can get a sister Ilhan on the show so we can have a conversation. Right.
Speaker 0 00:25:56 Well, let me do it. You've assigned me the job. So I'm going to check. You're done. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:26:01 Keith, how much, uh, did you get any grief for that picture of you holding that Antifa book up?
Speaker 0 00:26:08 Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I got a lot of grief for that, but you know, I gotta be very candid with you guys the first time I ever heard the term and SEPA like that from George Bush, from Donald Trump. I'm not kidding. He was yelling about, Oh, and peoples in chief as that. What about Nancy? And I'm like, Oh, this is whatever Trump was talking about. Now. I do know people who are anti-fascist don't know what's wrong with being an anti-fascist. I mean, some of us are anti-fascist right. Cause if you're not anti-fascist are you profile? Exactly. Exactly. Come on. Yep. You know, but, uh, but yeah, I got a lot of heat for that, but you know, look, man, um, what's wrong with reading a book and learning more about a subject? I don't know. I think that, um, I think that we all ought to read more and understand more and have a better understanding, you know, but, but you know, they, yeah. They, they clown me a little bit on, on the, uh, social media. Yeah. So what, you know, I'm not, I don't, I don't get paid. I don't let people bully me, so I ain't too worried about it. Right,
Speaker 2 00:27:14 Right. I mean, there's always bullies man. And um, I think too, just that, I mean, not everybody's into, you know, doing karate in the streets with their friends again and all that. And so I just, the way they depict Antifa in this country is just, it's all commercial and corporate man.
Speaker 0 00:27:36 Well, one thing is that there's no one group like called NC, but there's a way of looking at the world. Right. And so that's, and so that's another thing promoting ignorance. They don't even represent it as what it is. And so, you know, I would say this fascism is bad. Full stop.
Speaker 2 00:27:57 There you go. That's all I needed to be said right there. That's all it needs to be said.
Speaker 0 00:28:02 The thing I always thought about people that were like that is if you think it's okay and all right, to be a hateful person, then why do you hide it? Yeah. Come with it. You don't see the Pope saying he's not Catholic. Right. You know, he's like, Hey, this is me, man. You know? Um, why did they hide it? Why did they, why are they walking around with Tiki torches? Talking about Jews will not replace us. Then they're upset when people take that picture and publicize who they are. Right. Well, I thought that's what you, I thought, why are you worried about your job? Finding out you were at this thing, right. You're walking around proudly loud. What's the problem, right?
Speaker 2 00:28:44 Yeah. There's this, uh, there's a movement in this country too. I would say, not just on that end, but on the end of, um, a lot of, um, black folks who are in the North and have roots in the South are returning to the South, you know, as, uh, evidenced in Georgia, you know, and, um, building good, uh, uh, communities together and then also working on solidarity, you know? And so you see, um, I would never have imagined in my lifetime seeing, um, a Jewish American and a, a black man as Senator from Georgia. You know, if you would have told me that four years ago, I would have said, man, stop.
Speaker 0 00:29:29 No, that's true. Yeah. I mean, it's real talk, you know, I'm going to tell you guys, this is interesting. You should say this, because back in the day I'm talking about in the 1890s, 1880s, there were what they called fusion politics. This is what they called it, fusion politics. And you had a lot of white farmers who were like, you know, the democratic party, ain't doing nothing for me. And, you know, back in those days, the democratic party was the seriously racist party. And the Republicans were the party that helped bring about the end of slavery. So it was kind of reversed of what it is now, but anyway, those same democratic party, those farmers, white farmers were like, you know, these people aren't helping us. So they left the democratic party and then they joined with a lot of black Republicans who, and then they formed government and they formed governments in North Carolina and other places, one of the worst riot in the, in the, in the actually a coup de top, they cutting of the state occurred, um, uh, in North Carolina.
Speaker 0 00:30:39 And when, you know, they, they had the, a white supremacists attack, a solidarity do use in government. It had both black and whites in that government. Right. And, uh, you know, it was called the Wilmington riots. I don't know if y'all ever heard of it, but yeah. And, and yeah, and so it was, it was, you know, people, black and white people who believed in racial harmony and equality, they call themselves a fusion government. And they, um, they, they did, they did pretty well until they were attacked and murdered and abused. And that's what happened,
Speaker 2 00:31:17 You know, there's this, uh, author. And, uh, he wrote a book it's called the devil, you know, um, and it's the black power manifesto by this brother named Charles and blow. And, um, he talks about in his book, have you had the chance to read it? You should check it out. But he, in his book, he talks about, um, essentially the second great migration of African descendants slaves returning to the South and really getting connected to their roots and taking back a lot of the power, um, that they essentially gave up when they, when they move North for a better life. It's a really interesting book, man. I mean, I just wanted to bring that up. Maybe you can tell,
Speaker 0 00:32:04 Well, I definitely want to encourage people reading, you know, learning more, knowing more is definitely the right direction. And, uh, you know, there another good book out there is called the condemnation of blackness by a guy named Kahlil Gibran Muhammad. And that's all about that kind of traces this, this whole story. And then, uh, I don't know if y'all are familiar with this brother named Reverend William Barber
Speaker 2 00:32:32 And Barbara, Matt. I'm going to tell you, I wish he was my, my, my river. I mean, he's the only, I'm serious. That's the only that makes me want to go to church.
Speaker 0 00:32:41 Yeah, he's outstanding, man. Well, he wrote a book called the second reconstruction and he goes through all this stuff with the Wilmington riots and the fusion government that proceeded that. And, uh, you know, it does a great job. So I would say, you know, read William Barbara's book, read, uh, Taleo, Jabra Muhammad's book. And then of course always read Howard Zinn, a people's history in the United States should read that.
Speaker 2 00:33:07 Yeah. I'm hip to that. I liked that. Oh yeah. What made you become one of them
Speaker 0 00:33:14 Become a lawyer? Well, you know, I decided to become a lawyer because I just felt like we needed to bring, we needed to bring justice and law to get right. They, they had been separated, you know what I mean? Right. You know, there's law and there's justice. They were not the same thing. And I decided that I wanted to help do that. And I thought it would be the right thing for me to do. So, and then, you know, my mom always told me that I was too argumentative. And so she said, why don't you put that to good use and go to law school?
Speaker 2 00:33:55 Hey man, is that a Detroit thing?
Speaker 0 00:33:59 Might be, yeah, I was born and raised in Detroit. Oh really? Yeah. Oh yeah. I moved to Minnesota. I was about 23, 24 years old. Oh yeah. You know, but my kids are born here in Minnesota and I've lived here longer. I mean, I'm 57 now. So I've been here most of my life at this point, but no, I started out life. My parents are from the deep South, my parents, my mom's from Louisiana. My dad's from Georgia.
Speaker 2 00:34:30 Wow. Yeah. You know what you do. What's funny. Uh, I have a similar story, man, except, you know, um, my maternal grandparents, um, are from Louisiana and paternal are from, um, Georgia, but my great grandfather was born in Detroit and he worked at LA. Yeah. He worked at Lincoln motors, you know? Sure. Yeah. Well, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:35:00 Detroit was, yeah. You know, there was a lot of great, there was a lot of organizing in Detroit, you know, right before Martin Luther King ever gave his, I have a great dream speech. And in Washington, DC, he actually marched down the middle of Woodward Avenue with a labor leader named Walter Ruther. And he was the head of the UAW. And, you know, they marched down, uh, they marched out Gilbert Avenue and you know, that's why, you know, I will always say, you know, the March on Washington was not just a March about civil rights, but it was also about economic justice. You know, it was a March for jobs and justice, not just, not just civil rights and both are important, you know, Martin Luther King one time said, if you cannot afford the hamburger, what difference does it make? But he could sit at the lunch counter, you know, you know, we gotta be able to, uh, spread the wealth around here, you know? And I definitely think that's true. You got, you can't, you can't say you can go anywhere. You want to go, but you can't afford, but you're, you can't afford to go anywhere. No, that's not. Right. So that's about it.
Speaker 2 00:36:11 My family, I got, I think, uh, in, in Michigan, in general as five generations of us there and uh, Oh, sure. Um, my dad was born there. My grandpa was born there. His grandfather, you know, they go way, way back. Um, you know, I was born in England,
Speaker 0 00:36:31 The city of X there, of course, you know, well, you know, Detroit is a city that has a lot of serious civil rights history. A lot of people may not know that Detroit was like the last stop on the underground railroad. Um, you know, at one time Detroit had Southern slave catchers walking around, looking for a fuse. This, uh, there's a church called second Baptist church in Detroit where they have, um, you know, under the church floorboards, they had, they would hide people. So when it got dark, they could slip them across the Detroit river. Wow. Canada, you know, of course, uh, you know, John Brown and, uh, who, you know, in, in Frederick Douglas, white man met together and talked about how they could in slavery in Detroit.
Speaker 2 00:37:22 Wow. That's amazing, man. I didn't know that I did not.
Speaker 0 00:37:27 It's true. Yeah. Yeah. Look it up, man. If you, if you, if you go to the Detroit river today, there's a beautiful Memorial commemorating. The people who crossed the, um, who crossed the Detroit river into Canada. So they could escape bondage. After the fugitive slave law was passed. It said that the North had to honor Southern slave catchers in the North, uh, capturing people. And then of course they paid bribes and you know, there was a lot of black people who were free and yet they would get, if you got caught, if you got arrested without your papers on you, they might sell you in slavery. Anyway, that's what happened to Solomon Northrup and uh, in the book 12 years. Right.
Speaker 2 00:38:16 Right. Jay had a question for you too on this subject. This is a little office, a little bit about religion.
Speaker 0 00:38:24 Yeah. Sorry, but he's got just remembering when it was. Wow man.
Speaker 2 00:38:29 So both of us grew up with, uh, um, around Islam, you know, especially being in Detroit. Like, I didn't know. I didn't know it was different until somebody said it was different, you know, being either in a Baptist church or seeing some of my, uh, uncles and aunties and uh, family, friends who were, um, devil followers, you know, um, what led you to Islam as a black man? And, um, what's been your experience.
Speaker 0 00:39:06 Yeah. That's a good, I liked the way you put the question, because when you say what led me to Islam, I could explain that to you. But the thing that I always find difficult to explain is why I decided to become a Muslim because I really don't know that. I think that's just God's will, you know, I believe that I believe that that's just the divine, you know, that's just divine inspiration. Right. But the reason what led me to it is that, you know, I admire people who are Muslim. I admired, uh, Muhammad Ali. I admired Malcolm X. I read, we were talking about books. I read the book, um, the autobiography of Malcolm X. I was amazed by it. Um, you know, when I saw the Muslims who I know they were self-confident, they were courageous. They, they had, um, they, they believed in themselves and they, they didn't, uh, they didn't go low to anybody, you know?
Speaker 0 00:40:05 And, and so when I got to Wayne state campus where I went to college, I met a friend of mine. His name was Maka and myself, um, you know, th you know, one day he and I were studying calculus. And, uh, he says, uh, Hey, uh, it was a Friday and it was a real little bit afternoon. And he said to me, Hey, I gotta, I gotta go, man. He said, what are you doing with study? And he said, no, man, I gotta go. I gotta go to salon. I said, what is that? You gotta go to Juma prayer. I said, well, what is that? So he said, well, just come out. And since he was leaving, I studied session was over. So I said, okay, I show up there. And there's all these shoes in the hallway. So I'm like, okay, gotta take off my shoes.
Speaker 0 00:40:51 All right. Walk in there, no chairs. I'm like, no chairs. Huh, man. I gotta take off my shoes and it ain't no chair. So we sit on the carpet and I'm listening to this guy in the front. Talk about the mission of Muhammad. Talking about Muhammad came, you know, to free people from bondage to give, to elevate women to equal rights, which is, which is actually what he did do to, um, you know, to still, she stood up against the rich and the powerful on behalf of the poor and dispossessed. And I said, I needed to know more. So I came back the next Friday came back the Friday after that next thing you know, I'm taking Shahada, which is witness. No. And then that was, that was like in, uh, in like October, November of my second year at Wayne state. And, uh, right around that time was when they given, was coming up.
Speaker 0 00:41:50 And my mom says, my mom, you know, she used to live here. So that means she's off into her cookie big time. Right, right, right. Oh yeah. And she says, Oh baby, I got this ham. You gonna like this hand, I'm like, ma don't mess with no hand and say, what, why don't you tell him? I said, well, I'm a Muslim. You, ain't no Muslim. I'm like, yeah, mama, you ain't no Muslim. Cause cause you know, you want to eat some of this ham. And you know, I said, well, I am a Muslim. She goes, Hey, let us, that's my father's name. She say he's Muslim. And my father says pay no more.
Speaker 3 00:42:27 Well,
Speaker 0 00:42:30 You know, everybody kinda has a laugh and said, well, if I'm glad you, my brother says, I'm glad he is a Muslim. Gimme that ham he was going to have,
Speaker 0 00:42:41 You know, after that, you know, that was it. My mom started cooking the greens with Turkey and um, instead of honey ham, you know, she, they all accommodated me. My mother's come up in the Catholic tradition. Right. And, uh, you know, so my brother is a Baptist minister to this day. And uh, you know, my family, you know, you mentioned the term solidarity, never did my family make me feel like, you know, they, they had a problem with me. You know, having seen the divine the way I was being inspired, you know, never did that ever have day one. I was like, well, let me tell you, I will tell you, I kept on, you know, going to church with my mom. And you know, the brothers at the mosque told me that that was fine. You know, I said your mama, right. And one, as a matter of fact, one of them told me, cause I told him, well, I don't know, man. Cause my mom, she makes pork, you know, I don't know what to do. I was, I don't know what to do about this. And they're like, don't do nothing. Just tell her you don't want eat the pork and love your mother. And they told me, you know, that's what I first heard the heartbeat, who should be most dear to you, your mother who, second, your mother who started your mother. Okay. Who's for your father.
Speaker 3 00:44:05 It's, don't get no love.
Speaker 0 00:44:08 Right, right. But, but you know, that's the, how deep, you know, that's the same for the profit. Right. So, right. So, so there you go. It took me, you know, becoming a Muslim to really learn how important, you know, didn't your family, your parents, right. Is, you know, I mean, I grew up, like I said, I grew up Catholic and that's it. And I've learned a lot of good things about the Catholic church and I respect them. But you know, this is what works for me. So, you know, there you go, right, man. Well, we appreciate you and taking the time. Oh likewise man, you guys, please keep it up and keep doing the show, man. We got to get people more information, more wisdom, you know, that's the problem. We need more clarity of understanding and you guys are providing that. So thank y'all very much. All right, I'll get on my, I'll get on my job.
Speaker 1 00:45:10 We want to hear from Ilhan. I got your, your people, your people got my number. That's right.
Speaker 0 00:45:17 I'm on it, brother. You know, I ain't going to let you down.
Speaker 1 00:45:20 All right. We appreciate you, man. Have a good night. Thank you. Thank you, Mason. And KFH for allowing sticks and stones to make this podcast also, we'd like to give a special, thanks to our producer, Ms. Hill music by Mike and Janet Crenshaw under the sun.
